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ECU reflash (chip tuning) for 7th gen (CL9) and 8th gen (CU2)


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#1 littlebo

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 23:34

I dont even know how to start this tread well, there is so much important things to point on. First of all id like to say that lot of Accord owners at least one time in their life had an idea that their car looks much more faster and aggressive than it moves. Now i can say its true. The engine in these cars can do much better , has a great hidden potential that is sleeping and its possible to awake it.

Lets talk bout K24 engine first. Overall its a big bro of a well known K20 type-r one. Honda added 400cc of displacement for low end torque ( it must move a heavier car like accord ) but tuned it for civil usage without spikes, burnouts, with a calm and predictable behavior for every average user. Lots of things been made to bump comfort more than performance in it. If someone interested - just ask and ill explain this. Honda K battle engines are famous for their heads , they breathing extremely well and let to burn lots of fuel , producing tons of power. These engines are also extremely well designed, balanced and assembled, this allow em to rev that high. So comparing K24 and K20 we can see almost same head design, both has high compress ratio, both can rev high, but one engine blows like a hot champagne and other is dull... The key problem - tune. K20 engine tuned to its maximum, to make every possible HP at every rpm. K24 tuned for economy, ecology, safety and so on.

As all of you knows , these are i-vtec engines that has small and big lobe on camshafts, so small lobe is for economy and big is for power. Lets see how much power revs has K20, vtec engages at 5800 and last till 8600, almost 3k of fun. Now lets see at K24, vtec kicks in at 6k and last to 6.8 on AT and about 7 on MT. So much less fun, and the biggest problem that with existing gears this fun absolutely not usable, every gear you shift will kick you out of power mode to small lobe weak and economy operation mode. And one more problem here. Engine consumes air to burn fuel, there is a moment when small lobe on camshaft cant open valve deep enough to supply enough air for power grow, and torque + power starts to fall and recovers while vtec lobe engages but its too late, heres a redline. So instead of constant power building through the revs we have a big dip in the middle with small bump on top... They had to switch vtec on much earlier to supply enough air. I dont know and dont understand all reasons why Honda screwed the tune of Accords so bad but we have what we have.

They screwed almost everyhting there. VTC map, this tech arent fully used in stock calibration, very small angle of advance is used. Ignition - very conservative, fuel maps - too rich, vtec - too late.

One more thing to talk bout - power management. Its a pedal under your foot that opens a throttle plate. Cable is gone, hello Drive By Wire. How it works. You have 2 resistors , one in a pedal module and one in a throttle body. ECU see that you pushed a pedal so you need to accelerate and send a command to TB to open for even amount. What the problem ? Why DBW pedal is so luggish ? Its a compensation table in DBW map. You pushed pedal for 30% , ECU opens plate for 20% . You are angry with bad engine respond and push it even more but the ECU cut some of your will again and again. You cant be a solid thing with your car because of this. What ive done... Ive just set that map 1:1 like a cable ) So you push 10% and have about real 10% . You dont need to jump on your pedal anymore, you will get right what you want.

So the key difference in tuned ECU program vs stock one.

1. DBW map, instant respond on a pedal movement, much more predictable amount of power and acceleration, lots of pleasure knowing that you own this mechanism , not a vice versa ))

2. Ignition. Not too much to say, tuned to the detonation limit ( minus 1-2 degree for safety ) for good 95 gas

3. VTC map been tuned for the best performance. if someone want i can describe how this thing works .

4. Fuel tables been precisely tuned for max power at top end and real economy at low, fuel efficiency ander normal driving is better for about 0.6 - 0.8 liters, depends of air filter and cat conditions.

5 Vtec been set to the point where small lobe isnt enough and vtec lobe must start to work, its a 4600 rpms. So now you dont have a dip, power climbs smooth.

6. Rev limiter been moved to 7700 rpms. There is a moment when vtec lobe also isnt enough to supply air for building power, its 7600 rpms. Stock oil pump also has this 7500-7600 rpm productivity limit. So its efficient to rev engine to those rpms and then shift the gear.

What we have after all ? We have a true and sharp Honda engine respond, like a type-r but more powerful and much more torquey !

Heres ib shrt how this long theory and lots of letters looks on the road in real life.

Stock car VS reflashed car. these are AT guys.
https://www.youtube....?v=laVcoW-ck4Y

inside you can see 3 vids of road testing made by my customer, roll on and off the line. MT vs reflashed MT
http://www.drive2.ru...rnal/1872624/��

Heres you see how stock MT car beats stock AT



And now same cars but AT is reflashed and was able to pass stock MT and MT guys cant touch it ))



And one more , Accord with mods ( header, intake ) VS stock Golf GTI , before reflash.



And after reflash



And heres road result for CU2 , both cars are AT , stock executive VS stock reflashed type-s

 - on D mode , 0-200 run.

 - roll on

 - S mode to the redline, 0-200 run.


And here is almost full potential of K24 engine that can breathe well, bone stock empty type s VS modded executive + 2 passangers +full tank of gas ( resonator removed , low restriction air filter, set of good 4-2-1 headers, high flow catalysator , reflash )

 - 0-200 run


Now every gear you switch accelerates in a vtec power mode, no losses ! Engine works at its max potential at every rpm, low or high. As you can see , those cars can be very fun to drive !

Let me know guys what you think )) Questions are also appreciated. Besides a bad tune CL9 has few more flaws and weak point that can be tuned and fixed with a good improvement in power and behavior. I will tell bout it later if you are interested in.


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#2 littlebo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 21:46

Almost 100 guys looked and no any question ??
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#3 cagliostro13

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:06

Hello!! All this looks really good..what would be the price? I have to ship my ECU to you, right? Or, do you have chipped ECU's right away? What would be the price of shipping to Ukraine? Thanks!!
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#4 littlebo

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:36

Good morning ! Ive developed a remote reflash technology so you guys dont need to ship your ECUs . For doing this i need to establish a dealership relations with someone there so he will connect ECU to PC and i will flash it remotely. I can also ship flashed ECU, they cost rather cheap here on a junkyards , you need to swap it and program your immobilizer with a scanner.
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#5 blitva

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:47

Hi, do you have a dyno chart where we can see the difference between stock and tunned car, or at least can you tell the peak torque and power and at what rev's we get them? Also the price.... Regards

Edited by blitva, 17 September 2013 - 07:48.

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#6 cagliostro13

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:40

Good morning ! Ive developed a remote reflash technology so you guys dont need to ship your ECUs . For doing this i need to establish a dealership relations with someone there so he will connect ECU to PC and i will flash it remotely. I can also ship flashed ECU, they cost rather cheap here on a junkyards , you need to swap it and program your immobilizer with a scanner.


So, what would be the price for remote flashing?
Payment would go thru paypal?
Thanks!!
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#7 sHark

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:50

Is it doing any good on a stock engine? I have only a light flywheel and stage 1 clutch on my car. Also, I have LPG installed. Thank you!

Edited by sHark, 17 September 2013 - 08:50.

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#8 littlebo

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:07

Ive used virtual dyno to tune it on the road but some of my international customers tested it on dyno, ill ask customers for graphs and post em. Peak torque and power dont tell you much... The space under curves is what makes a difference. I can show you graphs of 2 engines with same peak power but first one dusts second one like taking candies from children ! Dealer will accept payments, i dont know which type of payments you use there. Desired price is 300 EUR for CL9 and 350 for CU2 . The result you see is mostly on a bone stock engine blocks , few cars there has catkillers , headers , intake mods. This reflash was developed for stock cars or cars with mods like intake or header. Usually one of the local enthusiasts that is interested in asking me to send him an interface and flash his car, he test the result, post a feedaback for those who is curious but dont trust strangers and then becomes a dealer. I send it for FREE so anyone is shure im not a scammer or cheater, im doing so coz result is great and i soon have a good dealer and pleased customers. Need a guy in a big city so other ppl can reach him rather easily. As for LPG - under high load or at even RPMs the LPG system must automatically switch to petrol, at least the gen 4 and gen 5 systems we have here works like this. Reflash is tested and working fine on LPG, the only requirement is that system must be tuned to switch on petrol at about 4k rpms so under high load engine must work on petrol. In such case i can recommend using a reflash+LPG , if your system isnt switching on petrol as i described then its not been tested and im not recommend to try this.

Edited by littlebo, 17 September 2013 - 18:57.

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#9 littlebo

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 18:29

Found a dyno example for CL9, run and print was made without corrections, take a look only at the difference not at numbers

Posted Image

Linear and smooth powerband. Something like hondata has here http://www.hondata.c...k-vs-reflas.gif



And heres for CU2 , it behaves a lil different, has higher CR and VTC can be advanced more, so gains are a lil better and starts earlier.

Posted Image

Edited by littlebo, 17 September 2013 - 18:53.

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#10 Sin

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:54

Can chipped K24 last for more than 30-50 tkm ? Is it tested ?
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Brought tears to my eyes which I used as lube to masturbate on my cat...

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#11 littlebo

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:06

I just called owner of my test car i used to develop it ( my first customer ) He made 26k after i finished. His ECU been flashed more than 50 times during development. So far so good. Engine can be damaged by detonation, overrev , lean mixture , none of this persists, anyone can check EGT to see that its in a safe range.
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#12 yullaw

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 20:40

malo mi je sumnjiva ova krivulja od okretnog momenta :/
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Oh Lord, won't you buy me a civic typeR?
My friends all drive vw..... :D

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#13 littlebo

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 20:59

Really ? Why do you think its strange ? Im waiting for shipping details from Split and one package is already on a way to Zagreb :) Soon any1 will have a chance to test it on the dyno and on the road with other cars. Im proud to say that all variety of customers, from racers to grocery getters will find something special coz engine performs and responds much better in low and mid end, not only in a VTEC mode.
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#14 cagliostro13

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 13:58

sam da kazhem, paket je stigo prije nekih tjedan dana, josh malo pa chemo reshit reflash pa che svi zainteresirani moch vidjet kak to funkcionira, kako se auto ponasho i slichno..drugi tjedan kad se sve zgotovi, stavim dojmove..
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#15 dux_zg

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:22

A znači ti si taj, mogao si i prije se otkriti. Hoćeš možda auto na dyno prije i poslije stavljat?
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Yeah, the mo' dedicated the mo' medicated Can you feel me?

#16 cagliostro13

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 16:14

A znači ti si taj, mogao si i prije se otkriti.
Hoćeš možda auto na dyno prije i poslije stavljat?


nisam o tome razmishljo..al mogo bi..kolko uopche para bude izmjera snage?
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#17 dux_zg

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 16:31

Nemam pojma ali tako se jedino vidi sta se uradilo..
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#18 dar-mar

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 20:44

Oko 200 kn kod Kikija Habulina(Mazda Habulin)... To je jako dobra ideja... Mjerenje isti auto-isti dan-isti valjci... Tu će se najbolje vidjet učinci reflasha
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#19 littlebo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 22:54

+1 , to see correct delta you need same day , same hour, same gas in the tank , same environment temperature and lots of other "same". 3-4 runs on stock to fix avg result and same amount after reflash, to fix avg. Also, 7th gen has a big broblem with intake side being heat soaked so you need to control IAT sensor readings to see if ECU hasnt turned on ignition compensations ( retard ). This problem is well known, especially when its summer outside , you start the car and it moves fine for 10-15 mins and then becomes stupid and you can do nothing untill it cool down. Ive noticed it very well on stock car while doing continuous runs during tuning.

To solve this you need to make a TB coolant bypass and IM bypass + install IM thermal gaskets to distance IM from the head. Taking ambient air from under the fender instead of hot from under the hood is also a good idea.

Heres how it looks like

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by littlebo, 13 October 2013 - 23:31.

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#20 sHark

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 20:11

Taman reflashao i isprobao auto. Izvrsno! Ide ko gluva kobila...snaga konstantno raste,vtec fino nisko,blokada u oblacima... Uglavnom,ja sam prezadovoljan!!! Bravo Sergey!
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